Patrick Schreiner (Professor at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary) vs. Augustine.
by Jared Moore, April 2024
One of the biggest lies told by those who say "same-sex attraction is not sin" is that Augustine is on their side. Augustine never taught that there is good in sin or good in the flesh. Patrick Schreiner, Nate Collins, Wesley Hill, Matthew Lee Anderson, & Revoice have all told this lie repeatedly.
Schreiner: "It is related to anthropology and whether we follow Augustine and see every sinful desire as a disordered good and even holding onto some remnant of good. So does a “same-sex orientation” preserve goodness in that the desire for mutuality, friendship, and companionship are good desires? Therefore if “same-sex orientation” is not reduced to the sexual act then the orientation itself is not sinful." web.archive.org/web/2015120807…
What Augustine taught:
1) "How much more suitably, then, is the flesh said to lust when the soul, as well as animating the flesh with "soulish" life, also covets or lusts after things in its wake. lt is not in its power not to lust or covet like this as long as sin is there in the members, that is to say, a certain violent allurement of the flesh in the body of this death (Rom 7:24), which arises from the punishment of that sin we trace our roots back to, in the wake of which we are all, before grace, children of wrath (Eph 2:3)."
-Literal Meaning of Genesis
2) [Speaking of Paul in Romans 7:14-16] "Behold, he knows the law, praises it and consents to it; that is, he acknowledges that the law is good because what it commands, this he also desires, and what it forbids and condemns, this he also hates; yet nevertheless, what he hates, he does. Therefore, he has a knowledge of the holy, but still, his evil concupiscence is not healed; he has in him goodwill, but evil action prevails."
-On the Proceedings of Pelagius
3) [Commenting on Romans 7:15] "What do you carry out? I lust. Even if I don’t consent to lust, even if I don’t go after my lusts; all the same, I still lust; and of course I am myself in that part too.
You see, it’s not a case of it being me in the mind, someone else in the flesh. But what is the case? I, therefore, because it’s I in the mind, I in the flesh. It’s not a case of two opposed natures but one human being made from each nature because it is one God by whom humanity was created. I, therefore, I, with the mind serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin (Rom 7:25). With the mind, I do not consent to the law of sin; but for all that, I would much rather there wasn’t any law of sin in my members. So because I would much rather not, and yet, all the same, there is: it is not what I want to that I do; because I lust and don’t want to, it is not what I want to that I do; but what I hate, that is what I carry out. What do I hate? Lusting. I hate lusting, and yet I do it, with the flesh, not the mind. What I hate, that is what I carry out."
-Sermon 154
4) [Commenting on Luke 16:19-31] "We beat our breasts when our consciences prick us with our consciousness of sin. What we are beating is something inside, some bad, evil intention or desire; let it only burst out in confession, and there will perhaps be nothing left to prick our consciences. Let all our sins burst out into confession. I mean, that rich man, swelling up in his fine linen, had something inside—and if only it had burst while he was still alive! Then, doubtless, perpetual flames would not have been applied to him. But because he was proud then, that fluid produced only a swelling, not a bursting. Meanwhile, the poor man Lazarus was lying at his gate, full of sores (Lk 16:20). So let none of us, brothers and sisters, be ashamed of confessing sins; to lie down, you see, signifies humility."
-Sermon 113B
5) [Commenting on Romans 7:12-13] "Notice how he said that the law which was given to the Jews was a good thing. He called it a good thing because God had given it. And indeed, all the things laid down in the Ten Commandments are good. Or is there, perhaps, something bad about You may not steal, you may not kill, you may not commit adultery, you may not bear false witness, etc., you may not covet your neighbor's goods(Ex 20:13-17)? I mean, even if you haven't taken anything but have just coveted it, the laws in the courtroom can't touch you, but God, in his judgment, can and does.”
-Sermon 159B
6) [Interacting with Romans 1] "The apostle included both sorts when he said, into the likeness of the image of perishable man, and of birds and quadrupeds and reptiles. That is why God handed them over to the desires of their hearts, to uncleanness, so that they would treat their bodies with contumely among themselves (Rom 1:23-24). These evils stemmed from impiety; their head and source, after all, was pride. However, the sins that follow are not only sins but also punishments. When he says God handed them over, it is already the penalty of some sin that they should do these things, but these punishments are also sins. Why? Because they can still pull back from them should they wish to. When it comes to punishment, however, it is no longer granted to turn back from it; that will be the punishment that will no longer be called sin. In these middle stages, they are both punishments and sins. The first stage, pride, is only a sin, not yet a punishment. The things that follow are both sins and punishments. Anyone who declines to pull back from them will come to the punishment, which is no longer a sin but a penalty for all sins. That pride, though, is the first sin is stated openly somewhere else: The beginning of every sin is pride (Sir 10:13). And how then is avarice the root of all evils (1 Tm 6:10)? Because to want more than God is avarice, to want more than is enough is avarice. Only God, after all, is enough for the soul, so Philip says, Show us the Father, and it is enough for us (Jn 14:8). But what could be prouder than to forsake God through overweening self-confidence? What is more avaricious than not being satisfied with God? Pride, therefore, is the same thing as avarice at the origin of sins. That is why the fornicating soul, having forsaken the one true God as its lawful husband, prostitutes itself to many false gods, that is, to demons, and finds no satisfaction at all."
-Sermon 198
7) "And so it is that if we desire to receive pardon, we must be ready to pardon all wrongs committed against us. After all, if we look at our sins and try counting what we commit by deed, with our eyes, with our ears, in our thoughts, by innumerable impulses, I don't know whether we wouldn't go to bed with a cool million to our account. That's why we ask every day, batter God's ears with prayer, prostrate ourselves every day, and say, Forgive us our debts, just as we forgive our debtors (Mt 6:12). Which debts of yours? All of them, or only a part? You will answer, I am sure, "All of them.”
-Sermon 83
8) "Suppose, for example, there is a temptation to avarice, and some particular temptation overcomes someone (because even the wrestler or the good warrior is sometimes wounded); avarice overpowers a person, even a good wrestler, and he does something or other mean and avaricious. Or else there has been an impulse of lust; though it hasn't led to dishonorable conduct, it hasn't gone as far as adultery. Even when a man has felt such an impulse, he is still forbidden to commit adultery. But he has seen a woman as desirable, he has thought of pleasures he should not have done, he has been in a fight, he has been smitten, doughty warrior though he is; but he didn't consent, he beat back the wanton impulse, he chastised it with the bitterness of regret, he beat it back and conquered it. Insofar as he did slip up, he has something he can say about it: Forgive us our debts. So, with all other temptations, it is difficult not to have something about which we should say, Forgive us our debts."
-Sermon 57
9) "That is the wedding garment. Examine yourselves; if you have it, you can be confident about the Lord's banquet. There are two things in one person: charity and avarice, love and greed. Let love be born in you if it hasn't been born yet, and if it has, let it be fed and nourished; let it grow. But as for that greed, even if in this life it cannot be extinguished, because if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 Jn 1:8), but insofar as there is greed in us, to that extent we are not without sin; so let love increase, greed decrease so that one day that one, that is, love, maybe perfected, greed may be wiped out."
-Sermon 90
10) "Despite great progress, you still have that covetousness. So, until death is swallowed up in victory, say, Forgive us our debts. Say this about past matters, deeds, words, and thoughts. What about future matters? Listen, and say what comes next: Lead us not into temptation (Mt 6:12-13). Watch and pray that you do not enter into temptation (Mt 26:41). What's the meaning? Consenting to a bad desire. You've consented? You've entered; at least be quick to come out. Before you get to sinning, kill your consenting. Rejoice that you haven't done it; repent of thinking of it."
-Sermon 77A
